Welcome to the 2026 National Poetry Month issue of The Account: A Journal of Poetry, Prose, and Thought.
Transformation is a through-line in this issue. From the cherry blossoms in Taylor Franson-Thiel’s “Cardinalis Twice” to the mustangs in Ruth Williams’s “Wild/Tame,” many of the poems you’ll read here involve change, evolution, nature, or metamorphosis. There are poems about surveillance capitalism, summer camp, mothers, midlife aging, love, legends, and letting go.
In their accounts, several of the poets talk about coming back to writing after a time away from it. Lately I’ve been writing hardly at all, though my husband and I have gotten into watching DIY YouTube videos put out by a community of people who simply call themselves “makers.” They do woodworking, 3D printing, crafts, and eccentric engineering projects. One of our favorite channels is a cheerfully bonkers man named Colin Furze who is digging a steel reinforced tunnel under his house and garden—because why not have a trap door in your pantry that leads to a secret passageway? It’s fun.
That is my wish for everyone reading this note. I hope you have fun creating something this spring, whether it’s a poem or a batch of blueberry muffins or an exploding bubble launcher. (See Emily the Engineer for that last one.) I hope you’re able to stay in touch—or get back in touch—with what you enjoy about writing and making. I’m trying to do the same.
This issue is also the last one for our Assistant Poetry Editor L.A. Johnson. We’re deeply grateful to Liz for all of her work over the past three years and for being such an excellent editor and collaborator. We wish her every success as she launches two books: one she edited and one she wrote.Swirl & Vortex: Collected Poemsby Larry Levis is out now, and Liz’s first full length collection,Lost Music, is coming in 2027 from Milkweed Editions.
Thank you all for being here and for joining our community. Let’s embrace, as Megan Pinto writes, “these long days of light.” I hope you enjoy the issue.
Mixed media (acrylics, found images, embroidery thread, charcoal dust), 12x12
From the writer
:: Account::
As a writer and a visual artist, I’m drawn to the way that people exist within landscapes and interact with them. I’m also interested in the way that statuary and sculpture immortalize and memorialize human beings. Placing images of sculpture into imagined landscapes brings those natural and internal worlds together for me. When I came across this image, a Laurana bust of Isabella of Aragon from the 15th century, I was enamored with her expression— a tired wariness, a knowing deflection. Placing her in a dark layered landscape, cut with black insect contrails, made her the perfect centerpiece for a knowing and resigned Mother Earth. A plant with exposed roots covers her mouth— both a silencing and a wordless hope of blooming.
Donna Vorreyer creates and writes in the Chicago area where she hosts the online reading series A Hundred Pitchers of Honey and is co-founder/editor of Asterales: A Journal of Arts & Letters. She is the author of Unrivered (2025), To Everything There Is (2020), Every Love Story is an Apocalypse Story (2016) and A House of Many Windows (2013), all from Sundress Publications. Her mixed media art has been featured on the cover of her book Unrivered as well as in North American Review, Waxwing, Thimble Literary Magazine, Pithead Chapel, Gone Lawn, The Boiler, and other journals. You can find her at http://donnavorreyer.com
In this story, your mother swallowed an egg, screamed,
and birthed a monster. After the fishermen had their way
with her, a mapmaker loved her. Would bring her lace gloves
and lavender perfume. Copper pennies to line her mouth.
She wouldn't be the last thing that crawled from the mud
and learned to fly, but she was the prettiest, once you rinsed
her off in the bath. Once you remembered how the swamp
swallows all sound. A feral stillness filled with wriggling
and writhing things that could kill you. Her feathers were thick
with algae, nails crusted with dirt. Places on her body still
unmapped by his hands even after a decade. Places in her heart
dark and unreachable as a grove of cypress in moonlight.
You'd hide beneath her skirts at the table while she sipped tea
in a room covered in flowers. Lie down under the settee
breathing slow. Soak in the clawfoot tub and cover yourself
in petals. In which you'd make a garden of your body,
in which you'd make a grave.
~
Mostly, you longed to be one of the women
who could carry the sky in her bones. Could curtsy
and shift their weight to the other foot. Could root through
the garden and find only church socials and sweet tea recipes.
Praline sweet and scented like lavender. To be clean and close
to god, who rustled his feathers in the rafters every now
and then, watching as you touched yourself. Everyone touched
by something—holiness, madness—no one knew which.
Hoarding the bones of mice in small piles under the bed. Birthing
tiny eggs you'd hide in the closet, then bury in the ground.
Whether they hatched, you never knew, eaten by snakes or
smashed by starlings. You'd wear sleeves in the summer to hide
the filthy down that covered your arms. Would open your mouth
and something crawly would slip out wriggling and drop to
your desk. You'd stare in horror while the other girls
picked feathers from your hair and cooed.
From the writer
:: Account ::
I’ve repeatedly found that, as my work evolves, the subject of transformation comesup again and again. Specifically women turning into monsters or monsters turninginto women. The idea of transgression and limitation held in balance with freedomand evolution of the self that fascinates me. I’vewritten many poems about womenthat become other things—dog women, mall zombies, bird girls, ravenous vampires.About myths where women are blessed or forced to become deer, sirens, trees. Tobend their shapes into new configurations to escape fear, violence, control. Thisparticular set of poems is set in New Orleans, which is my second favorite city toChicago, and where I probably would live if I could not live here. A city filled withmonsters and ghosts and magic from which the women in these poems emerge,feathered and starving. Setting it in the 1930s is probably a result of repeated theaterviewings of Sinners and an obsession with the Hadestown Broadway soundtrack, butthere is something about the Depression era that resonates with these characters thatseems a perfect fit.
A writer & book artist, Kristy Bowen lives in Chicago, where she creates a variety of poetry hybrid works and experiments that enfold text, visual art, performance, film, and more. She is the author of numerous books, chapbooks, zines, and artists books, including CLOVEN, a new collection of poems and collages centered around the Greek figure of Iphigenia. For the past two decades, she’s blogged about writing, art, horror films, thrifting, and othermiscellany at DULCETLY: NOTESON A BOOKISHLIFE. She also runsDANCINGGIRLPRESS&STUDIO, where she makes and sells all manner of art, books, paper goods and accessories. Raised in the wilds of northern Illinois, she inhabits a beautiful, but drafty, art deco building near the lake with several mongrel cats, her husband, too many books, and a vast collection of thrifted finds—only some of which are haunted.
First, it’s good you’re still alive
even though there’s more of you to love.
I have, however, detected something hidden
worming its way through you.
Have you recently heard a cock crow?
I wouldn’t worry, unless someone brings you
a deathbed beverage. The digital rectal exam
will tell me what I need to know. Are you
still supplementing God’s work with vitamins?
Juggling a dozen pills a day
will keep your mind sharp. I won’t mention
the forty-five pounds you need to lose,
basically a kindergartner. I see
you still breathe heavily, but your hair
seems healthy for a person your age.
Any concerns about the clavicle?
I’m prescribing a cold wind to keep
the fever down. Also gum. You should
subscribe to the Farmer’s Almanac.
A lukewarm cup of tea each evening
will ease your rush-hour tension. Also,
take the solace of darkness, grind it
to a fine powder and stir it into a soup.
This will ungird your simmering tiger.
Now, while I slip into something more synthetic,
go ahead and pull down your pants,
bend over and think about wild geese
soaring above darkening water.
Unlike duck hunting season
this won’t hurt a bit.
:: Evensong with Mid-Life Crisis::
After a night of rest, everything hurts.
My right rear quarter panel reflects light
like a dirty diamond and I know
people sneer at my poor emission standards.
Yesterday in the elevator some
flatulent galoot ripped one and all eyes
turned to me. A child peered through my windows
and left with cold fireplace vibes. I don’t
belong here anymore but the lack of
assassins sustains me, swordfish poised
for the slightest provocation, such as
a throng of hipsters mid-merriment or
white Jesus buried among unhindered
children. The waitress reminds me of my
first sin. I stare at the shimmers in her hair
then accidentally order tulips
and ice water. Before we never see
each other again, I order a moist
cake and mumble about our dessert fathers.
Match by match these candles are lit.
On the way home my windshield inverts a bug,
everything over in a blink. I don’t
belong here anymore. The city moves on.
:: Dark Night of the Spleen::
I’m on my knees on the sanctuary’s
plush kneeler praying for residual
Jesus lining the communion cup,
realizing this is the right amount of faith
for me right now—fumes of Christ,
Christ’s halitosis. Some days
you are not up to it. Do I always
have to prove I’m not a robot
just because I’ve forgotten my password?
Not sure about my blood type, think
my name is Tim. Now that winter is here
autumn should’ve had better music.
The liturgy of wet silk. Alas, fair wretch!
Trumpet, blow! If the music returns to me
here on this kneeler, then I will rise
and remember that I am dust,
and not a bad singer
for such a stretch of desert.
From the writer
:: Account ::
Grief brought me back to poetry in 2017, after a fifteen-year hiatus. Almost every poem I write is infused with grief. Rarely do I sit down to write a specific poem, rather, I sit down and create the space for poetry to happen. The tools: a bowl of my favorite words; spare poetry parts; my journal; the emotional state of the day. Many poets responding to pain through poetry understandably attempt to package the chaos of grief in organized word boxes. I did the same thing in poem after poem, but ultimately that was unsatisfying. Instead, like the expressions of grief in the Book of Job, it seemed more appropriate to share a bit of the chaos instead of trying to contain it.
These poems come from a manuscript titled “When the Crickets Within Me Whisper,” a tangled biography in the wake of grief. Poems like “Dark Night of the Spleen” and “Evensong with Mid-Life Crisis” filter my Catholicism through my addled brain and crumpled sense of humor. Other poems, like “Annual Physical,” take mundane experiences, or Texas experiences, and drive them through the same filter. In my head, I’m a serious person who contemplates serious issues. For some reason, when I write poetry, my rebellious corpuscles show up and commandeer the narrative. This is my fault, for the aforementioned writing process that allows anything to show up and enter the work.
Brian Builta works for the Society of St. Vincent de Paul in Dallas and lives in Arlington, Texas. His poetry has been published most recently in Innisfree Poetry Journal, Dodging the Rain and 3rd Wednesday. He is the author of four collections of poems and more of his poetry can be found at brianbuilta.com.
Before minimum wage increased, & I had to think about taxes
& salaries & little treats, we lived in a neighborhood with three
designs the builders liked to repeat, where I would shoplift
lipsticks down at the local drugstore, the Walgreens where (eventually)
I got a job behind the beauty bar, but often, when we were short-staffed,
I’d sell Marlboro Reds to the local boys with their fake I.D.’s,
or, on Friday nights, cases of Coronas to the men who spent their weeks
sleeping in empty rentals in the city, who’d give me wide smiles
& check out my ass when they thought I wasn’t looking.
Corporate had installed cameras in the rafters, but I could spot them,
too good at hide & seek; so, no one ever caught me swiping colors
on the backs of my hands, or sneaking the bullet tubes into the pockets
of my pants, but when the assistant manager & I were found in the break room
with my top down & his cock out, well —
:: To the Software Engineer Who Has Seen My Sex Tape::
I wonder how you found it.
Was it a chance encounter in an endless stream of files?
Those videos recorded & delivered by the self-driving cars
your company set loose in San Francisco.
Did you get excited? Have fun
watching me, three shots of Buffalo Trace deep,
climbing on top of the man in the backseat
who suggested rawdogging as we accelerated
slowly down Divisadero.
Did you imagine the irony
of touchscreens glued to headrests
begging for five star reviews?
Did you wonder why I did it,
or think of me like one of those girls
starring in a Fake Taxi scene
or patiently waiting for direction
on the casting couch.
Truth is, I did it because I could—
because I was wearing the kind of wrap dress
where all I had to do was push aside the polyester fabric
& tug down the lace cups of my get-lucky bra.
Unbuckle his belt & swing a leg over
his gym rat thighs. For one night, embrace
the thrill of a different life.
Of course, I forgot we could be on camera.
I hope, when you watch it, I look great.
Tits sitting high & back bent just right.
Maybe, I got lucky before you got your copy,
& someone was kind enough to blur my face.
From the writer
:: Account ::
“Sticky Fingers” is a sonnet based on a true story, where I was encouraged to resign from my minimum wage job as a teenager because the (adult) assistant manager and I were caught making out in the breakroom during one of our shared shifts. At the time, I was seventeen and in high school, while the man was twenty-five and had lied to me about his age. While I was punished in response to our actions, he continued to work in that job for years. I think it is interesting how inescapable it can be to be a woman—to be both a sexual object and virginal—depending on who one is interacting with.
“To the Software Engineer Who Has Seen My Sex Tape” is an epistolary piece, addressed specifically to the white collar employees at Waymo in San Francisco. When the cars were initially piloted in the city, the average citizen didn’t have a lot of knowledge about their design, beyond their autonomous nature. Months later, the San Francisco Chronicle published an article about all of the cameras in the vehicles and how many people had been caught having sex inthe cars. It caused me to reflect on the nature of surveillance capitalism, especially within a cityso driven by technology. In a contemporary society where nearly everyone has a camera onthem at all times, we’ve become numb to the strange panopticon we now reside in. Incidentslike sex in robot cars are funny, but representative of the greater invasion of technology intoautonomy.
Jordan Cobb (she/her) is a queer American poet. Based in NYC, she completed her MSc in Creative Writing at the University of Edinburgh. Her work has appeared in The Shore, jmww, The Storms Journal, Rise Up Review, The Columbia Journal, Jet Fuel Review, Camas Magazine, Outskirts Literary Journal, Cherry Tree, and Fugue Journal. She is @on_the_cobb on Instagram.
Cherry blossoms are bonelaced
across the sky and carrying a
northern cardinal nest with babies gun-
shy of flight. Into
whose hand will they fall if
I cannot catch them.
Into which horizon
thick with fingerthin petals
will they leave me
for? A part of me
cannot handle being a human
in spring. The blossoms pink
and dead already in my palm.
What spring knows is
the cardinals will leave
and I will not be able to go
after them. That they cannot tell
the difference between a gun and
my palm. I have only shot
a gun once, at clay pigeons in central Utah.
It was spring and the buckshot splintered
the red clay to white rubble
falling to the dirt like
petals or wings. I asked
is this safe? not sure of
what I meant by this. Each time a shot
rang out, cardinals scattered
like bloodsplatter against the sky.
From the writer
:: Account ::
I am interested in a kind of poetics that does not believe in the binary of the human world and the natural world. A poetics where form, traditional and post-modern, weaves the ecological onto the page. Beyond that my work questions how we name things, and how naming things presents a kind of possession in which our anthropomorphization assumes knowledge about the being (plant or animal), rather than learning from the being how to better engage with our world.
John Shoptaw writes in his essay “Why Ecopoetry?” that ecopoems must be both about nature, and give an urgent unsettling sense of something needing to be done. I think sometimes the thing being done should be pondering how we have come to talk about our landscapes, the animals we harm by overdeveloping, and how we think differently about the plants whos names we do know versus the ones we do not. The pondering itself, the rumination on the human power dynamic within the natural world can be valuable in how in then helps us to move through the world more consciously.
Taylor Franson-Thiel is the author of “Bone Valley Hymnal” (ELJ Editions 2025). She is a developmental and editorial coordinator for Poetry Daily, the Assistant Poetry Editor for phoebe and the EIC of BRAWL. She can be found @TaylorFranson on Twitter, @taylorfthiel on Instagram, @taylorfthiel.bsky.social on BlueSky, and at taylorfranson-thiel.com
Nature’s first green is gold,
Her hardest hue to hold.
—Robert Frost
This wavering April weather won’t hold.
Daybreak, I rush for the first train.
Snow lines the road sides; it refrains
from any promises of tree-top gold.
Mother’s nurse called at 5 a.m., the light
a trick on the horizon. This wick
of color that drapes black limbs, a wick
that will be snuffed before I hold
my last return ticket, a glimmer of light
that gives me hope. The northbound train
I ride to her is full of dawn. It pours gold
over nodding heads, a rhythmic refrain
as the scenes change. A lyric’s refrain
she sang to me as a child: I watched a wick
pour wax into the saucer, the gold
pooling around the candle, to hold
it firmly, solid in the cold night. A train
would whisper its distance as light
failed. She soothed me, a trick of light
that let her leave. She taught the refrain
of breath and silence that still trains
my sleep. Passing lights quiver, wick
the worry from the trip. Memory holds
her voice saying my name, her gold
kitchen walls, white curtains against gold
ripple like long petals, a flickering light
that brings April breeze inside and holds
its promise. I promise, my refrain
as I gather my bags, let the wick
of memory pull me off the train
that pauses only a minute, a train
whose clang will be a whisper, a gold
candle for other children tonight, its wick
black ash at dawn, the trick of light
forgiven in dreams. Forgive me, a refrain
I chant to her, as she leaves my hold.
From the writer
:: Account ::
“Her Hospice Nurse Calls” collects memories of caring for my mother, who suffered from dementia in her last years, in one fictionalized final journey forced to move forward by the train, just as her disease forced me to find light in remembrance. With the sestina form, I felt the same insistent movement.
Marcia L. Hurlow’s chapbook of poetry, Dog Physics, was published by Main Street Rag Publishing, fall 2024. Her newest full-length collection, Practice Rapture, was published in May 2025 by Pine Row Press. Her poems have recently appeared or are forthcoming in Baltimore Review, Chiron Review, After Happy Hours, Free State Review, Mudfish, Puerto Del Sol, Relief, and I‑70 Review, among others. She is co-editor-in-chief of Kansas City Review.
My friend, return yourself again to sleep.
Let the night’s rain amend your sleep.
Green leaves at the window brush the door
of the heart, gently attending to sleep.
Is a lapse between two sorrows a kind of joy?
Love’s face seen as prophecy when asleep.
A rupture in thinking mirrors my woe. O,
how I longed for a friend before sleep.
After the long, long day, consciousness
unfurls in a bed of leaves against sleep.
Megan, don’t fear a night’s dark dreams, rest
your mind against the page, then sleep.
:: Light ::
Lay down your woes in these long days of light.
Pale lavender sky, the evening’s play of light.
When did your green first stir my dormancy?
Clouds yielded rain, then a shock of May light.
Shadows across bark, a dance of maple leaves
quiet the mind’s chatter, now swayed by light.
Each morning, I greet my joy, waking to find
your face framed in a warm pane of light.
My soul waits for its summons from its shy
heart, who sees beauty in a disarray of light.
From the writer
:: Account ::
Following the publication and tour of my debut collection, Saints of Little Faith, I needed to find my way back to the page. I wanted to write poems that felt new to me, that pushed me into different kinds of syntaxes and songs. I re-read Agha Shahid Ali’s Call Me Ishmael Tonight and realized that ghazals were a place to start—thematically and musically organized by a refrain vs by a narrative thread that ran through the poem. While I loved narrative poems, and leaned heavily into studying them while writing my first book, I needed to find a counterbalance. I wrote these ghazals in the late summer, moving back and forth between these two and a handful of others. Historically, summer has been a difficult time for me write poems, because I become distracted with travel, parties, etc, but the ghazals felt somehow more nimble. I could work on them one couplet at a time, making slow progress in my notebook that was not quite linear, and yet would come to accrue its own depth.
Megan Pinto is the author of Saints of Little Faith, from Four Way Books (US) and the87press (UK). Her poems can be found or are forthcoming in TheLos Angeles Review of Books, The Academy of American Poets Poem-a-Day, Ploughshares, and on The Slowdown podcast. She has received the Anne Halley Prize from the Massachusetts Review and an Amy Award from Poets & Writers, as well as scholarships and fellowships from the Bread Loaf Writers’ Conference, the Martha’s Vineyard Institute of Creative Writing, the Port Townsend Writers’ Conference and Storyknife. She lives in Brooklyn.
I refresh the camp registration screen seven times
between 7:59 and 8 am. This is my life now. When
the box goes green, I’m hot out the gate. Session,
name, address, guardians, school, saved payment
method. Fuck yes. By 8:05, she’s set. I used to
do this for concert tickets. Before that, I waited
in line, cash in pocket. Before that, I walked
to the park down the street, made my way
to the picnic tables where kids in neon camp tees
made bracelets. Pretended like I was just curious,
just saying hi, until Amanda whisper-waved me
over, as if sitting close enough to her would make
me invisible to the lip-glossed, ponytailed teens
in charge. I never stayed long enough to learn
the box knot, always left before lunch. Outlaw
in plain sight, I sat straight and did the bit where
I belonged. One time, Chrissy couldn’t take it.
I made a bracelet. I made Amanda laugh. I made
my eyebrows dance at two counselors flirting.
Chrissy’s hand flew up as if it weren’t July but I
leaned fast across the table, whisper-warned her
you better shut the fuck up you fucking baby and
Amanda cackled into her palm and I stood up
because I was about to leave anyway. Walked home
slow. Pet the wet noses of other people’s dogs
though chain link fence. Sang quiet. Then loud.
Sang myself into a different summer, a bigger
story, a farther place where I was alone because
I left on purpose.
From the writer
:: Account ::
I am steeped in childhoods. I am a parent. I am an elementary school teacher. I am a children’s book author. And so perhaps it is not surprising that childhood—imagined, observed, and remembered—also often makes its way into my poetry. The poems in this submission deal mostly with my and my kids’ childhoods. In some, the childhoods are exclusive of one another. In others, my own childhood or even adulthood is clarified through my role as a parent bearing witness to my kids’ experiences. Being a kid is a very big thing. The enormity of that heartache, that love, and that wonder is the thing that makes us. Growing up is a strange and often terrible thing. I don’t really understand grownups who choose to live and work surrounded only by other grownups. Instead, I highly recommend a living that allows constant access to childhood. Even the hard parts.
Mk Smith Despres writes, teaches, and makes art in western Massachusetts. Their poems appear or are forthcoming in Frozen Sea, Hunger Mountain, Radar, Salamander, Southern Humanities Review,and elsewhere. They also writebooks for kids. Their picture book, Night Song, was one of Bank Street’s Best Children’s Books of the Year.
The woman with the wild mustangs
buys them at auction, some as low as $1
if you'll take them, tame them or not, just take them
from BLM land to a place other
than where they’ve always been. In her stalls,
the horses still, they took a saddle,
what the woman calls gentling,
no need for that older, darker word.
Intelligent creatures, horses learn
the pressure of a leg means
go this way, that. When we brush them,
the dirt from their backs
coats our pants and hands
as we work the knots in their hair, pulling hard
with the comb. Still, shifting,
they avoid our feet.
In the fields,
the untamed ones cluster.
Wild creatures, they’re black,
brown, dotted, turn at our approach
like one head bending,
sinuous, elemental.
They know we’ve got food,
chalky man-made rocks
they’ll velvet lip from a hand,
move quickly off.
When does a wild thing pass to tame?
When a woman looks at the horizon,
we say she’s gone far off, but we know
she won’t bolt if we come closer.
These horses have long eyelashes
like women, so it’s easy to believe they’re sad.
When we turn back, the wild ones follow
at a distance, then flood around us,
Are they wild now or tame?
Some will never take a saddle,
others do and will. The horse woman
names the ones she’ll try to gentle next.
I don’t know how she tells the difference.
Is it the tension in a back, the way
the dust rises when they run? These wild horses
know the feel of the earth by hoof.
Soft ground means first light;
hard dirt, sun, no water. Could wet mean mother?
I’m far off now. Their language gentles.
Heartbroken, I can’t say anything.
From the writer
:: Account ::
These poems are part of an on-going, sporadic series I’ve written for years now. It’s not something I’m actively working on, but rather a device I keep coming back to for its generativeprosperities. Each poem bears a title with a slash that I think of as a “hinge” that swings between the two words or phrases on either side. In writing these poems, I run along this hinge, swinging back and forth, exploring the pleasures and pain of being in-between.
Ruth Williams is the author of a poetry collection, Flatlands (Black Lawrence Press) and two chapbooks, Conveyance(Dancing Girl Press) and Nursewifery(Jacar Press). Currently she is a a Associate Professor of English at William Jewell College.
I first met AJ White through his work. His poem “The Poem You Asked For” landed in the submission queue at Overheard, and I remember being struck by its vivid openness and leaps into memory. Readers of The Account may also remember AJ’s work from our Spring 2025 NaPoMo issue, where we had the opportunity to showcase two of his poems.
His debut collection, Blue Loop, won the National Poetry Series, selected by Chelsea Dingman for University of Georgia Press.
The collection navigates the luminous wreckage of addiction and its aftermath with a steadiness that never pretends clarity.
It does not matter what we will be,
only what we refuse to be. — “Blue Loop” (36 pg.)
The collection’s speaker is filled with hard-won wisdom, applying pressure to understanding the world’s logic while still grappling with how to inhabit it.
In late February 2026, AJ and I were in conversation discussing topics ranging from memory and time as literary architecture to the apostrophic “you” as both ethical responsibility and open door.
SCA: AJ! Thanks for doing this. We should probably give some background for the folks at home: since publishing your work, we’ve been digital pen pals. You’ve always said smart and insightful things, so I was interested in taking our conversation outside of a Gmail inbox and into the public sphere.
In an interview with rob mclennan, you mentioned spending a decade working on Blue Loop. I imagine you were a lot of different people during that time. I’m interested in hearing about how you were thinking about memory and time. I’m thinking about individual poems like “No More Stories, No More Meaning,” where we open on an image from the speaker’s childhood—a rabbit in their backyard—then move toward this striking image:
“I am thirty years old lying in sweat & vomit
in a motel in this hometown, stumbling down the street.” (14 pg.)
Yet we end with the revelation:
“after I forget this, after my sister forgets this, after my mother
& father forget this—will this still have happened to me” (14 pg.)
Readers experience a lot of temporal leaps. Memory and the act of remembering seem to hold a vital place in self-making for the speaker.
How did your own relationship to memory shift over that decade of writing, and how did that shape the way you structured these movements through time?
AW: What a brilliant and graceful question, Sean. And not even something we’ve really talked about before in all our conversations! I’m so glad to begin here.
This book—and my current, ongoing work—is more about time than anything else, I think. It’s been difficult to talk about, because my work is perhaps more obviously about other, neighboring concerns: addiction, recovery, loss, meditation, survival.
In the ten years in which the concerns of this book were taking shape, I was moving through different periods in my relationship to my addiction, alcoholism. I moved from what I would call pre-active addiction to active addiction to post-active addiction, which I would call recovery. Through these movements, what I recognized—and, more importantly, what I felt—was the impact of time on my life. Time had (and in many ways still has) a hold on me. I was making frequent, nearly incessant alterations, interruptions, to my plans and life out of different kinds of fears about time (i.e. boredom, anxiety, regret, dread, loss aversion, emptiness … I could go on).
When you are under the sway of any kind of addiction, you are always waiting. You are waiting to use again. You are waiting for the high to wear off and preempting and combatting that by using more. You are then, extraordinarily painfully, when you can’t physically use any more, waiting for the most acute withdrawal effects to subside. These can be deadly and require hospitalization for a heavy drinker. Then, when you are very actively trying to recover—through meetings, therapy, meditation, willpower (none of which worked, on their own, for me, through years of trying to get sober), you are waiting, waiting, waiting to become the person you are trying so hard to become.
After you enter recovery, you are still anxiously waiting, often: anticipating cravings, anticipating relapse. Time anxiety continues to dictate choices and the emotionality of those choices. You have to learn, as the book says, to distract, to delay. These are time maneuvers.
All that is to say: other poets have other obsessions, external powers, or bewilderments they write about. I know what has held my (involuntary) attention and intention for many years. It’s not what I consider a deity. It’s not another human or group of humans. It’s time, and thinking about time, and being anxious about the passage of time, that co-authors my feelings, actions, and subconscious.
I don’t prioritize structuring these thoughts. I don’t consciously structure much about those poems that feel very free-ranging in scope and time. I try to hold all moments together. I remember, I anticipate, I act in the moment. To move between moments in time does not feel like a plan for me. I suppose the side-effect of having time as an obsession is that you also kind of unlock it as a literary weapon. Because you are, anxiously, unstuck in time, you are also poetically unstuck and have ready access to memory and to future anticipatory occurrences: autonomy of movement across time.
SCA: I love this, AJ. I liked the repetition of “waiting” throughout your response here. Blue Loop seems to suggest the inevitability of waiting—waiting as a state of being rather than a means to an end.
In this waiting state, the speaker often finds himself in repetitive reflection: lines are repeated, then followed by new insights. For example, “Lots of theories now I love” is followed by
tomatoes like darkrooms
detonate from inside out
watch the sun’s arms pump
their nectar into flame. — “Blue Loop” (37 pg.)
and later, is followed by “The one where existence is / Transformative happenings” (“Cloud Absolves,” 71 pg.).
In an interview with BingUNews, you coined this as the “self-cento”—a riff on the cento in which lines from elsewhere in the collection return again on the page. It feels especially apt for a book so full of self-reflection.
How did you find yourself writing in this form? What did this repetition afford you in your work?
AW: I would call them self-centos, yes. Cento, from Latin, derives from a word for quilt or piecemeal garment. A cento is quite an old form, but a traditional cento’s poetic quilt, as you say, is made of small pieces of fabric from others’ work, whether they be lines from poems, songs, or other media.
There are lots of references to the work of others in this book, but the self-centos (the five poems titled “Blue Loop” that, together, constitute most of the book’s central section) are there because I was trying to quilt a present-day life together from pieces of both a former (unstable) and a future (stable) life. I wanted them to be right in the middle of the book so that roughly half the lines, at that point, are lines the reader has seen before, while half the lines are lines the reader can anticipate seeing again later in other, so-far-unknown contexts. This technique, honestly, goes back to time: it mirrors, for me, the way the past (longing) and the future (anxiety: or waiting, as you say) impinge equally upon the speaker’s wellness.
This is a version of a story I hear a lot about poets and the forms that make their books unique: I had one self-cento. It was a brand new thing. For a little while it was the book’s first poem. But I was getting feedback, both from others and from myself, that, like, no one knows what this is. It’s all alone, formally. So I wrote the other four self-centos, finally, the day before I submitted this book to its last round of prizes. I knew I had to get them done and in the book. I knew where I wanted them to go. So I printed the whole book out, I underlined and cut out with scissors every super-reactive line I could find, then I started arranging those lines into poems. The poems’ patterns (structure), while not identical, are similar. As a lot of poets and writers also know, when you’re on, you’re on. Especially working with your own favorite lines of your work. You know not only how they operate, but how they can operate.
I like that, in many instances like the one you quote, they show further possibilities of the same language. These poems are about you (the former partner, one subject of the speaker’s longing) in a later poem becomes, in a blue loop: these poems are about you: the past you cannot see clearly, & the future you cannot see through. Time, again, as a primary subject of the book.
SCA: That’s awesome, AJ. I liked how you brought your process into the physical world with the scissors and collage method. The whole process of using your own reactive line(s) to turn on the writing, or hit a type of flow state, feels like a good start to a writing prompt.
The end of your response brought me to another point I wanted to discuss: the “you” throughout your work. There are poems like “We Were Never Really Going to Get Away” where the “you” feels concretely legible to the reader:
we had been apart a few months
the last time I saw you I let you
know I had been sober 8 weeks
for the first time in 8 years you
said fantastic we had coffee you
said you look good where did
you get that shirt you said do
you want to get a drink you
said you know we were never
really going to get away
-“We Were Never Really Going to Get Away” (13 pg.)
But elsewhere, such as in “The Poem You Asked For,” the “you” is multifaceted: the former self, loved ones, maybe even a call to society at large. I’m thinking about moments in Blue Loop where the speaker and the “you” seem to operate as one, the speaker projecting onto the “you,” versus moments where the “you” carries different logics and intentions than the speaker.
I wondered how the “you operates” in both the writing and the writing process as a whole. I was thinking about the “you” vs. the speaker and how the two operated as one (the speaker projecting for the “you”) but how the “you” may operate with a different way of thinking as the speaker in the world of the collection.
AW: I love this question. I especially love the generosity (and wisdom) to ask about the “you” not just in the operation of the poem, but the operation of “you” in a poet’s writing process.
I think about the pronoun “you” in the context of verse poetics constantly. I clearly also think about it differently than many others, because while this question has come up, in many different forms, relatively often, it’s not a question I ask myself. The way poetry-creation works in my mind, it’s like asking a carpenter or a bricklayer why they use the same nail or the same mortar again and again. It’s the right nail; it’s the right mortar: it works.
I also try to describe it thusly: “you” is similar to “god” to me. In the context of literature, “god” is an allusion that describes, within one simple word, a very cogent relational situation that invokes power and knowledge discrepancies. “You” is an efficient, short pronoun that very cogently evokes a very wide, useful range of relational values in poetry: intimacy, direct address, familiarity, generosity, personhood, ongoingness. It also carries a kind of situational irony that I like for my work: the reader knows the “you” is not present, but the poet keeps addressing this “you” as if they, in some way, are. As a poet, you get the benefit of all these associations plus that tension simply by using the word.
Then, further, using “you” demands responsibility of the poet. As you say, the real “you” does have different logics, intentions, selfhood, and probably an entirely different take on events than does the speaker. I have to craft poems to a “you” that take into account the you’s perspective, even though that perspective is inaccessible to me. I like and need that responsibility.
Finally, as is always my intention in poems, rather than keeping readers out, “you” invites readers in. “You” is open. You know many “you”s. If a poet writes “my son,” “my husband,” “dear beloved,” it forecloses possibilities. No one reads a poem by Sappho, or by Emily Dickinson, or by Jean Valentine, and is, like, without knowing who these yous are, I can’t enter the poem. We can enter the poem more fully not knowing, or partially knowing. Poetry is about what we don’t know.
Most of the poems in question are iterations of apostrophic verse, also called, simply, apostrophe. Apostrophe is another ancient form in which someone or something dead or absent is addressed as if it or they is/are present. We don’t practice apostrophic verse so often these days as we do elegy, say, so it feels a little strained to us, perhaps. Or, as you say, the strain comes when the poet juxtaposes apostrophe with poems that use “you” less concretely and without signaling that shift. All my “you”s are apostrophic, though. The former self, the future self, the reader, the beloved, family members who have passed on, figures of authority: these “you”s are inaccessible. And yet, and yet. Using “you” brings them back and, usefully, often painfully, close.
SCA: Yeah, I love thinking about the “you” as both a responsibility for the poet and a doorway for the poem: very smart.
Okay, last question. I had a lot of different directions for this, but your responses throughout led me to think about your implementation of research. In a reading of “The Suscitation of God”, you mentioned your interest in Buddhist meditation guides. The title of the collection is named after an astronomy abnormality. Even in this interview alone, you’ve mentioned Latin roots and ancient forms. Clearly there’s a lot of pre-work work being done here before the pen hits the page.
How does research work its way into your writing process? And how did poetry become the “product” as opposed to other forms of writing.
AW: Research is life! My desire to know and—much more importantly, to understand—is insatiable. So much so that, in fact, I think it absolutely informed or contributed to my illness. If you are never satisfied in your immense lack of understanding of people and events, you may turn to unhealthy outlets to cope with that dissatisfaction or consider it a personal defect, if you are a consistently self-critical person.
And yet, I find practicing poetry so peaceful because intellectual knowledge must take a back seat, in poems. It must inform, shape, outline, but not be the vehicle of delivery. The vehicle of delivery, of course, must be an emotional experience that is also a bridge or network between poet, speaker, language, and reader.
Another poem in the book, “Letter of Six Intentions,” follows the Buddhist guru Tilopa’s seven-word, complete guide to how to live with intention, peace, and toward enlightenment (and toward a practice called Mahamudra—or the experience of mind-emptiness). It is:
1) Don’t Recall (don’t live in the past)
2) Don’t Imagine (don’t live anticipating the future)
3) Don’t Think (don’t live through intellectualization)
4) Don’t Examine (don’t analyze, like for cause and effect)
5) Don’t Control (seems obvious)
6) Rest (is obvious)
This teaching is very very difficult to practice! Most of my actions and reactions invoke, automatically, several discouraged tendencies at once. I love, of course, and find shelter in knowing that there is only one thing we are encouraged to do—we should all seek more rest.
Poetry, again, is a way of living, thinking, feeling, and practice that encourages and enables me, however, to live closer to these guidelines. I have always taken on intellectual information and formed and reformed paradigms very easily. That’s part, both, of who I am and of who I intend, daily, to be. But I also need balance. I need ways to live less connected to ideas and more connected to feelings and to emotional knowledge and wisdom, both mine and others’. Poetry helps me do that, because an increasingly intellectual poem is not an increasingly successful poem. A poem that feels ever more deeply, richly, originally, authentically: that is how our treasured art advances.
AJ White is a poet and educator from Georgia. AJ’s debut poetry collection, BlueLoop, was selected for the National Poetry Series by Chelsea Dingman and published by University of Georgia Press. AJ has won the Fugue Poetry Prize, The Willie Morris Award for Southern Poetry, and received support from the Sewanee Writers’ Conference. His poems have been published recently in The Account, Best New Poets, Blackbird, Overheard, West Trade Review, and elsewhere. AJ lives and teaches creative writing in New York.
Imagine it for a second, The green world, greener still. Still, too, except for the humming. The air, rusted harmonica that it is, gets carried along by any number of small mercies. The dragonflies, the bullfrogs that eat them and then disappear, threading even more green. The nameless purple flowers that bend not out of courtesy but out of desire to return to that which offered them in the first place. And the water. That lucky penny. Leaves balanced on top of it, as if on purpose. A single bee, landing, as if on purpose. A small eyelash of a drink, before flying away, or flying towards. Imagine it for a second. Now make it so.
Dalton Day is a kindergarten teacher in Georgia.
Editor-in-Chief Sean Cho A.*: Lauren Davis’s debut story collection, The Nothing (YesYes Books, 2025), draws readers into Washington’s Olympic Peninsula: a landscape that’s as haunting and mysterious as the strange worlds her characters navigate. In our conversation, Davis talked about how writing fiction gave her a new creative outlet beyond her poetry, opened up about the physical toll that writing can take, and explored how silence, setting, and the unexpected element shape stories about isolation, loss, and unsettling wonder.
While The Nothing is your debut prose work, you’ve been an accomplished poet with multiple collections and chapbooks: Home Beneath the Church (Fernwood Press), When I Drowned (Kelsay Books), Each Wild Thing’s Consent (Poetry Wolf Press), The Missing Ones (Winter Texts), and your work with Whittle Micro-Press.
In an interview with The Leader, you mentioned, “I started writing poetry as soon as I could spell,” and later, when discussing The Nothing, you said “(fiction) was a place where I could experiment, without the pressure of it being any good.”
What fresh perspective did writing fiction offer you? Were there moments of surprise when crafting The Nothing? Are there lessons you’re taking back into your poetry practice?
The process of crafting The Nothing was made entirely of surprises. I was surprised to witness the dark turns my mind kept taking in the stories I wrote, that fiction offered me a place to indulge my shadow side, much more so than in poetry. I was surprised that it was, in fact, quite pleasurable to take those dark turns. I was also surprised that, at other times, especially the final editing phase, it felt like I was using a different part of my brain than I use for poetry, a part that was a bit atrophied and low on oxygen.
One thing that I did not expect was the seeming disappearance of my ability to write poetry. It was as if I could not write both poetry and fiction at the same time. I felt like I had been forced to choose, though I had not known at the time I was making a choice. I would sit down and try to write poetry and find I was writing the same poem over and over, or that I was writing what I was pretty sure was gibberish. This went on the entire time I was working on final edits for The Nothing, and it continued after the book was released. I had this belief that I had angered Poetry with a capital P by turning to fiction. That I had betrayed Poetry, and Poetry would no longer speak to me. This is a very fanciful way of thinking about writing, but it felt like the only explanation. I am accustomed to long silences in my creative process. I have never been a daily writer. There have always been ebbs and flows. But this silence had a different quality to it, and it went on longer than normal. I have written poetry since I was a small child. Why was the ability suddenly gone?
What I did not consider was my physical health. If I had taken a bird’s‑eye view sooner, I would have realized there was something bigger going on, and I would not have felt lost for so many months. My mind was not working the same way it had been before because something was wrong at the cellular level. It wasn’t until I was sitting on the couch one day short of breath for absolutely no discernable reason did I accept that I needed to go to the doctor and maybe get some bloodwork. And only when the results came back, and I found out that I had a nutritional deficiency that could and would affect my cognition, did I think to myself, no, maybe it is not Poetry punishing me for stepping outside our relationship. Maybe it is, in fact, that I need to take a supplement. The irony is I had been reading books on neuroplasticity for over a year, yet I had not considered the correlation between my creative health, overall physical health, and brain health.
It was easier for me to see how physical pain or poor mental health could disturb my writing process. It was much harder for me to accept how nutrition, or lack thereof, could completely throw my creative practice off. I am pretty sure this means I am going to become an insufferable creative writing instructor that recommends not only nature walks and a reading practice, but also multivitamins, eight glasses of water a day, and yearly checkups.
That being said, it’s obvious I simply do not have the reserves and stamina that other writers have. There are endless examples of writers who have created masterpieces under extreme duress—mental, physical, and spiritual. But that’s not my story.
I don’t feel as if Poetry has left me now. I believe I had not maintained the proper home for it, and naturally, it could not live there. My present task is to recreate for it a benign, healthy place to preside.
I’m interested in the worlds and tonalities The Nothing creates: at times surreal, at others grounded in reality, and sometimes existing in what you describe in an interview with What We Readingas “slipstream.” These varied modes seem to play into recurring themes of isolation, loss, and grief, which often leave readers with what Aaron Burch notes as “a haunting feeling.”
How are you thinking about setting and place as vehicles for these themes? The spaces in your stories often feel both specific and dreamlike: how do you craft that balance between the concrete and the ethereal?
As a poet transitioning to fiction, setting isn’t something you previously “had to” consider in such concrete fashion. Did the formal demands of creating fictional settings lead to any interesting insights about how place functions in your work more broadly?
Most of the places mentioned in these stories, real and imagined, are on the Olympic Peninsula, where I live. The Olympic Peninsula is geographically isolated. The terrain is largely rugged and much of it is undeveloped and impassable. Before moving here, I was completely ignorant of the fact that there are rainforests in the contiguous United States. The trees are so large that, at first, they frightened me. You can walk into the rainforest a few feet and become completely disoriented and lost. I know, because it happened to me.
These characteristics of the Olympic Peninsula—remoteness, ruggedness, dangerousness, otherworldliness—made it the perfect location for the stories in The Nothing. The rainforests will swallow you with one wrong turn. There is already a natural balance between the concrete and the ethereal here. I just had to take advantage of it.
In my poetry, I’ve written about many locations in Washington State, but I wrote about them more out of a sense of reverence. I don’t think that same level of worshipfulness comes through in The Nothing. Instead, there’s more deference and fear in my fiction.
I greatly struggled with a sense of cohesion in this book, and “place” was the final thread that I deliberately sewed. When I was first organizing the manuscript, I kept ordering the stories with the same mindset that I ordered previous poetry books. My publisher told me the stories, in their previous order, were talking to each other. She said it as a negative. I couldn’t understand how that was a problem. I didn’t realize I needed to order things so that the stories didn’t create a false sense of bleeding into each other. Interconnectedness wouldn’t come from one story’s ending insincerely echoing another story’s beginning. It came from theme, tone, and, lastly, place.
I wanted to discuss one specific story, “Into the Sun” (also published in Cutleaf in November 2022). Early in the story, Jonathan “asks” questions but his lips do not move, and there is no sound. By cutting out spoken dialogue entirely, you plunge the reader into an immediate sense of dislocation: an uncanny absence of voice that mirrors the characters’ own uncertainty. This silence carries through to the final revelation of the liminal space: when they dig and discover the glass barrier, the narrator’s dreaming body lies in perfect, silent repose.
In poetry, white space functions as a form of silence: a place where what isn’t said becomes just as significant as what is written. How was the empty dialogue operating for you in this story? Was it functioning as a kind of narrative “white space” that both disorients the reader and prefigures the story’s revelation of the paused, liminal realm?
I’m not trying to be coy, but I really don’t know where “Into the Sun” came from. When I submitted it to literary journals, it felt like a leap. And later, when the same editor who accepted it for Cutleaf helped me with the overall structure of The Nothing, I told him I never really expected the story to land. He suggested I make it the first story in the manuscript, and I still felt like I was asking too much of it. A great deal depends on the first story. It can make or break a book. But I took his suggestion, and he was, of course, right.
My intention with many of the stories in The Nothing is to make the reader question their experience and interpretations constantly. I want the reader to feel as if they are not on solid ground, as if they aren’t quite sure if what they are reading is a product of a character’s real or imagined experience. So in that respect, the white space was meant to disorient the reader. But there are things about the worlds I created that I will never tell anyone. I was working on a piece and another writer asked me, “Did xyz happen?” And I said, “I don’t know.” And she said, “The reader doesn’t necessarily have to know, but you need to know.” I’ve carried that insight into the creation of every story. I know what’s going on, but it doesn’t mean I am going to tell anyone. So in that respect, I am, in fact, being quite coy.
I appreciate your connection between poetic white space and the white space in “Into the Sun.” There’s also an unintentional and unforeseen metaphor there about the “white space” I experienced in my creative life while finishing up The Nothing—that long creative silence I am just now digging my way out of. I think each moment of white space—in poetry, in the world of “Into the Sun,” and in the creative life—holds more questions than answers. I am a worshipper of questions. I fear the unknown. I fear uncertainty. But I also travel again and again, like a disciple, to those blurred edges. What is devotion if not worship?
Lauren Davis is the author of the short story collection The Nothing (YesYes Books), the poetry collection Home Beneath the Church (Fernwood Press), the Eric Hoffer Grand Prize short-listed When I Drowned, and the chapbooks Each Wild Thing’s Consent (Poetry Wolf Press), The Missing Ones (Winter Texts), and Sivvy (Whittle Micro-Press). She holds an MFA from the Bennington College Writing Seminars. She is a former Editor in Residence at The Puritan’s Town Crier, and she is the winner of the Landing Zone Magazine’s Flash Fiction Contest. Her stories, essays, poetry, interviews, and reviews have appeared in numerous literary publications and anthologies including Prairie Schooner, Spillway, Poet Lore, Ibbetson Street, Ninth Letter and elsewhere. Davis lives with her husband and two black cats on the Olympic Peninsula in a Victorian seaport community.
*Sean Cho A. performed this interview while Lauren Brazeal Garza, Interviews and Reviews Editor, was on hiatus. Lauren curated this interview.
Editor-in-Chief Sean Cho A.*: José Hernández Díaz has long been a distinctive voice in contemporary poetry, merging the surreal with the deeply personal. Across his collections:The Fire Eater (Texas Review Press), Bad Mexican, Bad American (Acre Books), The Parachutist (Sundress Publications), and Portrait of the Artist as a Brown Man (Red Hen Press): Díaz has created a body of work that is at once playful, haunting, and deeply committed to questions of identity, place, and imagination. In our conversation, he spoke about the evolution of his prose poems, the balance between satisfaction and publication, and his philosophy of teaching as a practice rooted in refuge and inspiration
In your 2017 National Endowment of the Arts fellowship statement, you mentioned your interest in writing “surreal, absurd, and existential prose poems.” Nearly a decade later, these elements remain central to your work and form. For example, in your 2023 poem “José Emilio Pacheco’s Ghost and the Flying Jaguar,” published in The Cincinnati Review, the ghost of Pacheco rides a flying jaguar.
In a 2024 interview with Poet Lore, you reflected on your career evolution: “At the beginning of my writing career I wanted to be known as an avant-garde Chicano poet who was prolific and passionate. Now that I have a couple of books completed and two more manuscripts I just finished, I’m looking to have more of a balanced life, not just writing, but more teaching and editing as well.”
There seems to be an interesting connection between your desire to be avant-garde and your poems gravitating toward the surreal and absurd, as mentioned in your NEA statement. How is your movement toward a more balanced life shaping the work on the page?
I think that over the years I’ve relied a little less on shock or surprise. Still do it plenty, but not solely, as originally it was my main approach to prose poetry: the bizarre. Now, I can also appreciate an understated prose poem, an autobiographical prose poem, one with no magic at all, maybe more epiphany, an increased interest in vocabulary where previously I was more into the rawness of first thoughts and more stripped-down style. Early on I would rely less on editing or revision. I wouldn’t say my work currently uses excessive revision or makes you always run to the dictionary, but there is certainly more now than in the past, that’s for sure.
As I say, I still have an element of surprise and wonder, less is more and rawness of style, but it has matured to some degree in my own assessment of the writing over the years. I’ve also noticed in my earlier works the speaker was more likely to smoke a cigarette or use alcohol, where the more recent speakers rarely if ever drink or smoke, similar to my current situation.
In your editorial statement for the online creative writing education community PocketMFA, you discussed how your background shapes your attitude toward writing:
“Growing up first-gen, low-income I had to work hard and stay positive as I progressed through life. I try to maintain a similar attitude with writing, teaching, and editing. Problems can be worked through and ultimately satisfaction and/or publication can be reached.”
I was particularly struck by your delineation of “satisfaction and/or publication can be reached.” This seems to subtly position publication not as the ultimate goal but rather as one possible avenue where a poem might land.
Given your impressive productivity as a poet, as a result of your talent and work ethic, with recent collections including The Fire Eater (Texas Review Press, 2020), Bad Mexican, Bad American (Acre Books, 2024), The Parachutist (Sundress Publications, 2025), and Portrait of the Artist as a Brown Man (Red Hen Press, 2025) how are you thinking about publication’s importance and its separate but parallel relationship to your writing practice?
It might seem strange to hear that from me, but publication is not necessarily the goal. It is fine and icing on the cake, but the main goal is for a poem or prose poem to meet its full potential. Once I feel a poem sounds, looks, and reads well, that is enough for me to be satisfied. Of course, I would be lying if I said I didn’t enjoy publication, but so long as I feel personally satisfied that is the key because I can’t control editors or their subjective tastes; so why bother with that stress?
Of course, as I say, some things are easier said than done, and I am flesh and bone, ego, etc., like everyone else. So sometimes I wonder why a poem isn’t picked up yet, but they usually land, and if they don’t, maybe I will look it over, but it doesn’t always mean that a poem isn’t finished or done or quality just because it is not published to me. It has happened where work gets passed up due to space, subjective taste, other reasons. With that said, I usually get my work published most of the time. Maybe 90 to 95 percent of the poems I submit. Sometimes, I’ll even go back to look at work that never landed and edit it if necessary and resubmit to give it more “wow” factor if possible and they will eventually get published. But it is important to always keep in mind, for me, the goal is personal satisfaction with the poem; but that usually means a poem is “publishable” or “sound” anyway.
You mentioned your interest in pursuing a more balanced life that includes teaching and editing. You’ve taught creative writing at The University of Tennessee, UC Riverside, and various independent writing communities. I’d love to hear about your teaching practice. What do you hope students take away from your workshops? What does it look like to experience the gift of being in one of Professor Díaz’s classrooms?
I like for my classroom to be a place of refuge from academic pressure, societal hierarchies, toxic masculinity, racism, homophobia, colorism, classism. My classroom is a safe, welcoming space. I want writers to pursue creative writing with passion, not by trying to fulfill an assignment, obligation, or to get a high grade. I try to make writing approachable, interesting, and an overall invigorating experience. I want my students to be wowed, energized, and organically inspired by the art of writing poetry.
I tend to rely on definitions, close readings, classroom discussion and concrete examples to explore the writing of established masters. I also like to incorporate a generative aspect to the class, not just to gain insight into writing but also to understand as writers and readers the approaches to writing, inspirations, craft backbone and/or interpretive aspect of reading poetry as well.
I also enjoy sharing my own experiences as a writer with the class whether that is regarding submissions, rejections, MFAs, fellowships, manuscript editing, revision, economic realities, teaching, mentoring, etc. I also want them to know that I am there for them and care about their future, not just as artists or students but as humans living in an often complex society as well.
Jose Hernandez Diaz (he, him, his) is a 2017 NEA Poetry Fellow. He is the author of The Fire Eater (Texas Review Press, 2020) Bad Mexican, Bad American (Acre Books, 2024) The Parachutist (Sundress Publications, 2025) Portrait of the Artist as a Brown Man (Red Hen Press, 2025) and the forthcoming, The Lighthouse Tattoo (Acre Books, 2026). He has been published in The American Poetry Review, Poetry Ireland Review, The London Magazine, Poetry Wales, The Iowa Review, The Southern Review, The Best American Nonrequired Reading 2011 and The Best American Poetry 2025. He has taught creative writing at the University of California at Riverside, and at the University of Tennessee where he was the Poet in Residence.
*Sean Cho A. performed this interview while Lauren Brazeal Garza, Interviews and Reviews Editor, was on hiatus. Lauren curated this interview.
“This seeing the sick endears them to us,” Hopkins writes,
“us too it endears.” Confirmed in love. God, himself,
the reward. My father-in-law died on a Sunday in August.
For hours, the crackle of fluid in his chest.
Then a small mercy—a productive cough. Then sleep.
The smell of moonflowers in the late air.
I sat alone in the driveway. Everyone I loved
was asleep. My wife, my heart, exhausted, slept.
My father slept in the earth. My mother, in her great distance.
My sisters slept. My brothers. My nieces and nephews,
curled up like cats. Once, he woke into sunlight.
His daughters stood around his body
like Athenians. His son pulled the blanket back
and cupped his swollen feet.
———
I wake now every morning at 4am,
thinking of my wife who called in March
to say she couldn’t any longer. She just couldn’t.
The half-light of an overcast sky
paled the windows. “It’s irrational,” she said.
The sky was white because winter clouds
tend to be horizontal and summer clouds
vertical. I knew it happened when it happened.
The marriage over in a speech act.
As performative as I now pronounce you.
I now pronounce you no longer. Divorce
is just paperwork. You pay for that.
———
We married in a municipal court overlooking the Sound.
Her father signed as witness. He wore a beige jacket.
My mother called him handsome. “The hardest thing,”
Anne Carson says, is watching “the year repeat its days,”
each one an anniversary. The soothing voice. A gesture.
A fog so thick I was afraid to drive. Carson’s metaphor
is a videotape running beneath the present tense. I looked it up
because I thought I remembered a cassette. The song taped over
heard beneath the new one. Always there. I was wrong.
But I did remember the “lozenges of April heat.”
———
A friend calls. The president had been airlifted
to Walter Reed. Twice, his blood oxygen level dropped.
A fever. Then, three days later, on a White House
balcony, breathless, he removed his mask.
Sparrows gather in my mother’s yard.
I hear them chittering. The virus like a circuit continues.
My friend’s mind is quick.
She reads the image—the president framed
by the terrible symmetry of flags. An audience of cameras.
Hyperreality. The masses’ self-expression.
“I think he’ll win, again,” she says. Then she sighs.
She hasn’t been sleeping well. She wakes too early
or can’t get to bed. Her mother is sick
in another city. Alzheimer’s. She worries.
I want the habit of telling her she’s loved,
but I don’t say it, having been raised otherwise.
Not without love. No. That we had.
Its naked expression. That we didn’t.
———
Nineteen students. Cameras off. Twenty. Twenty-one.
We’re reading Tarfia Faizullah’s Seam
alongside an essay on trauma, “another body
inside your own.” I’m wearing a blue button down,
my knee wrapped in ice. “We can separate the elegist
from the mourner,” I say. One and the same and other.
“But what does it give the writer?” Before class, a student emailed
to tell me she’d lost someone. Then asked to be excused.
A student posts in the chat. “Distance?” Another responds.
“A safe distance.” Another. “What distance is safe?”
From the writer
:: Account ::
“You Were Never Lovelier” is a long poem occasioned by the dissolution of a marriage at the start of the Covid-19 pandemic. The poem’s primary settings are the adjacent neighborhoods of Jackson Heights and Elmhurst, Queens, the initial epicenter of the pandemic in the United States. The end of the marriage gathers and recalls a myriad of losses, often contextualized through the anxieties brought on by the virus. The “divorce poem” (or book) is perhaps its own poetic genre; its conventions often differ depending on whether the poet identifies as a man or a woman. I wanted to explode conventional expectations of how, for instance, “a man writes about divorce,” in particular as I found my experience of divorce more closely represented in women’s narratives than in men’s. “You Were Never Lovelier” is in conversation with both Anne Carson’s “The Glass Essay” and her work on desire in Eros the Bittersweet, as well as George Meredith’s 1862 sonnet sequence “Modern Love,” an exploration of the writer’s own failed marriage
Ryan Black is the author of The Tenant of Fire (University of Pittsburgh Press), winner of the 2018 Agnes Lynch Starrett Prize, and Death of a Nativist, selected by Linda Gregerson for a 2016 Poetry Society of America Chapbook Fellowship. He has published previously in BestAmerican Poetry, Ploughshares, The Southern Review, Virginia Quarterly Review, The YaleReview, and elsewhere. He is an Assistant Professor of English at Queens College of the City University of New York, and lives in Jackson Heights.
You’re the only man who sees straight through
my camera. My own mother couldn’t take me
to church. With you at the altar, I worship
like a fleabag, which means I’m either
a bitch or a seedy hotel, where the men come
and go like guests, nowhere remotely close
to the Grand Budapest. If I was born
in Sodom instead of London, I’d be
toast. On the game show of life, I insist
on calling a friend to ask, have you figured it out
yet? Sometimes the friend is Boo, sometimes
it’s you, and sometimes it’s me when I’m fifty.
If I live to silver my hair and still address
an audience. Whenever I give God a call
the line sizzles with static. Could you help me?
I have so many questions I want to ask him.
My therapist said he could be fucked.
Was she for real? Why did he bother
becoming human? We’re all turds.
Will my sister ever find happiness?
Will my best friend ever forgive me?
I want to believe she and my mum
are somewhere good, and maybe the fairy
godmother will head down
to the basement. How do I become
a better feminist? Why were our bodies
designed to shrivel? Sometimes I peer out
into the hard world, and it’s like
I’m the guinea pig.
Does it get any easier?
Are you even sure you’re a priest?
How could you marry a couple in a garden?
How do you give baptisms when you hate kids?
What man of God would say he would marry me
to someone else? I know you cut the line like that
on purpose. You swapped the wine
with G&T and gave me
the pleasure of your company.
Fuck you too, Father, but forgive me
for I have sinned. Maybe calling you that
does turn me on. I promise I won’t tell
God. I forgive you too. I hope he’ll let me
borrow you for an hour or two.
This communion is the most whole
I’ve ever been. Thanks for taking me
as I am: fake miscarriage and loose
buttons and monologues.
I can quit performing now,
because you’ve seen the view
from the cheap seats, that disastrous
dinner, the full stage of this one woman
show. You’ve tamed this wild thing in me.
You’ve pulled me out of this hundred acre
wood and into another sadness,
this time with the gratefulness of a glen:
how lucky I am to have someone
who makes saying good-bye so hard.
I’ll be at home or the bar or the café
but every time you spook my mind,
I’ll send a fox your way.
Its tail will disappear down the corner
of your every corridor.
It will jump headfirst into the blanket
of snow on your churchyard.
It will come knocking
on the door of your silent retreat,
hunting for your name.
:: The Greyhound ::
I’m feeling more frequently the blues you caught
in December. Last we saw each other, you walked me
to the bus stop down the curb from The Greyhound.
You talked me into talking to you until morning.
We were heading back out of that well-fed
university kennel and into the dog-eat-dog world.
Since arriving in England, I’ve hunted foxes and haunted
terminals, longing to tame and be tamed.
I’ve never before wanted so hard
to graduate from my school of shame.
That spring, we had a Sunday roast, making
the most of the Port Meadow winter melt.
Passing the ghost bicycle by The Plain,
you turned toward me with a grin
that made me want to hurry up out of my upbringing.
Outside the pub, you cradled my face
in your palms and said, your life still needs
some living. I was too young to consider
the consequence of your voice ringing
in my ears all evening. If you wanted to,
you could have brought me to a heel.
But you were a good master, the kind of gentleman
who spoke in Garamond. I didn’t look forward to turning
corners in a city without you. In spite, I left my laughter
tangled in your hair on purpose. I learned to walk
my own leash. Recently, I heard they put down
The Greyhound. You told me there once
the next time you would see me, I would be happy.
I’m happy now, I told you then.
You said, beaming, you’re only beginning.
From the writer
:: Account ::
When I first moved to England in the fall of 2022, my friends joked that I was entering my “Fleabag era,” although I was not entirely sure what that meant. I had been accepted into a fellowship program suggested to me by a former professor, a priest who was at the time living in London. I had not lived abroad or alone until then, but I understood this leap as a necessary rite into adulthood. Although I did not know what to expect, I have done a lot of growing up in the last three years. Both poems are love poems as much as self-love poems, about graduating from the gaze of the older men you place on a pedestal in your twenties. I’ve had the good fortune of not encountering anyone who has exploited this power over me.
The poems are also reference exercises in pop culture, particularly the BBC seriesFleabagand Taylor Swift’s song “The Black Dog,” from her albumThe Tortured Poets Department.The former takes on the persona of the unnamed heroine (or anti-hero) played by Phoebe Waller-Bridge. The latter follows a prompt from the poetry collectionInvisible Stringsedited by Kristie Frederick-Daugherty, who had poets respond to songs by Swift. I thought “The Black Dog” was brilliant and familiar; “The Greyhound” references a pub in Oxford, where I was based for half a year. But while Swift’s song rings with resentment, I wanted to respond with bittersweetness. At the core of grief, I found, is gratitude.
Regine Cabato is from the Philippines. Her poetry has appeared in The Margins, Cordite Poetry Review, and Cha: An Asian Literary Journal among others. She won the Carlos Palanca Grand Prize for poetry in English in 2019.
On your sobriety birthday, you dress up as the Mars Rover and sing happy birthday to yourself from the zero percent of a non-alcoholic Corona. Your new body is not as pliable as your test dummy body. You still believe that there is a killer in you. You are the burning star that once dressed as a saturated wish. It is hard to see who loves you when you are floating in undiscovered space. You still believe someone is coming to save you. No one has arms long enough to rip you from your wild ruckus of star-crossed drowning. In new ways, you believe in your loneliness. Your melody sings out from your emotionless throat into the constellations poised in arabesque, and reaching toward & through oblivions for a musical score that explains pain. You wish you had a softer mouth to eat Oreo ice cream cake, that you would not always feel like a satellite, sick of yourself.
Amanda Chiado holds degrees from the University of New Mexico, California College of the Arts, and Grand Canyon University. Her chapbook Prime Cuts was just released from Bottlecap Press, and she is the author of Vitiligod: The Ascension of Michael Jackson (Dancing Girl Press). Her work has most recently appeared in Southeast Review, RHINO, The Pinch Journal, The Offing, and numerous other publications. She is an alumna of the Community of Writers and the Highlights Foundation. Her poetry has been nominated for the Pushcart & Best of the Net. She is the Director of Arts Education at the San Benito County Arts Council, is a California Poet in the Schools, and edits for Jersey Devil Press.
These women call on me with garnets and pomegranate seeds
& ask me to stitch up their broken hearts maimed by some man,
but their affliction is much more serious than a tear to the muscle of love.
The man is really a tumor, cutting off their blood supply until they transform
into ghosts of their former selves. I rip off their rose-colored glasses, crush
the lenses under my heel. You don’t have the love of a man;
you don’t even have lust for a beast. If you cut that man open, maggots
which have cleaned out his soul will worm out and attach
themselves to your brain. They find delusions of love like yours
most delicious—they’ll reproduce inside of you faster than rabbits
until you’re just a husk, as frail and empty as the cicadas
that litter the ground after they split the silence of an afternoon
with their symphonies of despair; as frail and empty as the promises
he made to you, another victim to the pandemic of his pain.
:: Persephone Celebrates Her Anniversary ::
Hades doesn’t get me anything on our anniversary—
he tells himself that he already gave me a world.
Rituals to mark my militant march towards eternity
are attended by me alone. This year, I want new bones
to adorn my throne. Hades keeps a pit of men trapped
in tar: the ones who murdered their wives and kids. I visit
and stare into the sea of gaping faces, croaking misery
like a swamp of toads. I pluck one up by the hair
and hack my scythe to his neck like a stalk of sugarcane.
I hold his stunned face in my hands, imagine his mother,
palms on each cheek, asking him his dreams. He said
he’d be a hero, but in reality he’d be a monster.
Today his skull becomes a footrest. My marriage
was never proposed as a question;
if it had been, this would’ve been my answer.
From the writer
:: Account ::
I woke groggily, disoriented. Why was I on my back when I sleep on my stomach? Why were my breasts out of my bra? Why was there extreme pain in my genitals? I looked down and gasped: a stain of blood and feces pooled between my legs. “Oh my God, I’m dead,” was my first thought. My second thought was one of pure despair: “My friend was the one to kill me.”
Three years ago, this trauma became my reality to heft for the rest of my days: the discovery that my apartment maintenance man had been stalking me for months hit me like a tsunami turns a whole landscape into ruins. He’d put GHB in my Brita while I was at work, and he’d broken into my home at night with a crow bar to my screen door. Waking up from the first assault was only the beginning: he’d go on to drug and assault me for several weeks before I escaped.
It’s no exaggeration to say that a part of me didn’t survive that event: the last bits of my naivety had to die completely; I had to walk through the world heaving a new and brutal wisdom of pain, both my own and my stalker’s. It was a journey to the underworld and back, and, as such, was fraught with complex emotions, including bouts of denial, suicidal ideation, grief, and Stockholm syndrome.
But in that harrowing experience, I learned more about my own mental health, my autism, and my capabilities for compassion towards others, even those with the darkest pathologies. As I healed for several years through intense trauma therapy and education, I returned to the land of the living with a wisdom of darkness like Persephone walking through the spring blooms with her memories of Hades.
Therefore, my current poetry project is called Love Letters to Hades, in which I explore the multifaceted feelings of survivors who endure multiple assaults and Stockholm syndrome through the voice of the goddess of ghosts.
Anne Champion is the author of She Saints & Holy Profanities (Quarterly West, 2019), The Good Girl is Always a Ghost (Black Lawrence Press, 2018), Book of Levitations (Trembling Pillow Press, 2019), Reluctant Mistress (Gold Wake Press, 2013), The Dark Length Home (Noctuary Press, 2017), Hunted Carrion: Sonnets to a Stalker (Bowker, 2024), and This is a Story About Ghosts: A Memoir of Borderline Personality Disorder (Bowker, 2024). Her work appears in Verse Daily, diode, Tupelo Quarterly, Prairie Schooner, Crab Orchard Review, Salamander, New South, Redivider, PANK Magazine, and elsewhere. She was a 2009 Academy of American Poets Prize recipient, a 2016 Best of the Net winner, a Douglas Preston Travel Grant recipient, and a Barbara Deming Memorial Grant recipient. She received her MFA in poetry from Emerson College.
as far as I can tell—
if the eye can see, if the I can tell—
our plumage, our plastic, our metals
brushed gray as sky,
the clouds we wreck through,
their resistance a minor
disturbance on the wing, a rattling
of the shades
on the windows, and below.
Meanwhile our coughs, our farts, our failure
to place our phones in airplane mode,
our failure to mute them,
to choose correctly a ringtone, a mate,
the appropriate footwear. These we need
for the making of poems
in the space below the aerial realms,
our phones our windows now,
screens of heaven, fruit of the tree
of the new gods, the gone gods
dead as our loved ones, the light
behind their faces eternal in our eyes.
These we need—
the bumps, the reek, the tinkling
of shot bottles on the carts—
for the making of poems. Watch
your elbows, your knees,
your hearts, your snores, your babies’
cries like the blown
scraps of birds below,
winter birds and their shadows,
the horizon of their flight made vertical
in puddles, mirrors of longitude,
black ambigrams as the sky’s gray
paper folds in half
and half again, a diorama of flight then
before darkness comes to quell the difference,
and trees as I knew them
and forever imagine them to be,
the trees, their few leaves left shivering.
:: Drought ::
Someone quit practicing the hard notes
and you didn’t notice when
Storm clouds made mountains
then left us flat
gone the chive and jasmine scent
the silver in the leaves
the masterpiece, the archivist said, at rest
white cotton gloves making sure
and motorbikes wasping beside and past us after
having their turn at empire
Truth is, I miss it all
though it was much too hot already
and pain had made it hard to walk
Autumn, I thought, will be my birthday present
rain will be, peace
Okay, I know the limit
3 wishes + 22 times as many candles =
not so many wishes left to make
A garden hose dropped
where someone was trying
trees dormant or dead
earth like a carnival come and gone
the dynamite from Acme or Amazon
having blown the place sky-high
The dad jokes we were raised on made us believe
we’d survive them
I once mourned the children I did not have
now I mourn those others have
children at lessons and the library
down the corner, on the ball field
the one growing sunflowers tall as the roof
at her doorstep
the one who never saw a sunflower
you, who never saw a door
From the writer
:: Account ::
On a sketch of the Virgin and Child, Michelangelo instructed his young assistant, in shorthand Italian, to Draw faster, acknowledging that life lasts a moment, death—and art—far longer. As an aging, bi, childless poet currently recognizing the limits of my own life and that of our planet, I have immersed myself in the intimate and urgent discovery that growth and decay are the same cycle, and that art and memory, made in the tumultuous rush of these, are the deeply human attempts to outlast them. My seventh collection, The Unbecoming, begins with the command, Run, into a process that is, for me, like all of us, a circle of becoming and unbecoming simultaneously. The poems are, then, memento mori, a loving reminder, a poet’s reckoning with the rewards and losses of age, and with our painfully beautiful little lives “rounded with a sleep.”
Kathy Fagan’s forthcoming collection, TheUnbecoming, will be published by W.W. Norton in September 2026. Her sixth book, winner of PSA’s William Carlos Williams Poetry Prize, is Bad Hobby (Milkweed Editions, 2022), available in print and audio. Sycamore (Milkweed, 2017) was a finalist for the 2018 Kingsley Tufts Award. A 2023 Guggenheim Fellow, she is Professor Emerita of The Ohio State University, where she co-founded and directed the MFA Program in Creative Writing.